S05 E06 The Minoans transcript

You can listen along to this transcript of our Minoan episode. There might be a few changes as we tend to mix things up in the episode and edit.

If you’ve been listening to our 5 series of countries that don't exist anymore, you’ll know that we feature countries that don't exist anymore.

Barbershop quartet:

And that's why that's called that.

But today's country almost certainly wasn't a country in any serious sense. In fact it might have been just a disparate bunch of people who lived next door to each other on the Island of Crete in the Bronze Age and were just all really into jumping over bulls. I’ll explain later.

This country is something we know as the Minoan Civilisation and its people, the Minoans. But they never called themselves that. In fact we've failed to work out their writing so far (known as Linear A) so have no idea what they said about anything.

The only reason we know them as the Minoans is that in 1900, Arthur Evans, an archaeologist, was desperate to show off to a newly independent Greece that he'd found the first European civilisation, i.e. as distinct from the ‘nasty Asian Ottomans’ the Greeks had just broken away from. And although Crete wasn’t part of Greece until 1913, it was obviously considered part of the ancient Grecian world.

Being branded the cradle for European civilisation was a great spur for local Cretans, as well as being a useful funding argument for European and American archaeologists that worked there.

After digging up a palace that he called the Palace of Knossos, some newspapers decided that what Evans had discovered was the mythological palace of King Minos, featuring the minotaur and the labyrinth. And while Evans didn't encourage this click bait, he didn't help matters by basically rebuilding the Knossos ruins just as he fancied, with a pretty cavalier disregard to careful archaeology.

And while we probably have Evans to thank for us knowing anything about the Minoans at all, we're now having to untangle the wire drawer of falsities that is part of his legacy. So let’s do what we can to reconstruct the real Minoan Civilisation.

And excitingly, Ed actually visited the Palace of Knossos site for this episode (3 years ago) and recorded directly from there, in our new investigative travel reporting strand, CTDEA On the Road. In fact he should be back any minute…now…

Now…

Now…

Now.

He must have got delayed.

So, this time we're covering the Minoans. Not a uniform people with any kind of national identity that we can tell of, not a country and not a state that likely ever existed. Welcome to...

Theme:

Countries that never existed at all

They never existed, still not anymore.

If you're unclear what this podcast is for.

It's for countries that never existed at all.

When was the Minoan civilisation?

We think it developed on the island of Crete into something that we can label as Minoan in about 3100 BC, with complex urban settlements emerging in 2000 BC, which then lasted until about 1450 BC. So that’s about a millennium and a half of Minoa-ing.

Who were the Minoans?

The Minoans were non-Greek and perhaps a Semitic people. They were definitely the people who lived on Crete. These days we call people who live on Crete…

Ed:

Absolute cretins. Do you know I was waiting 4 bloody hours for that EasyJet flight just because the lazy local cabin crew didn’t turn up. And the only thing I had to eat was half a stale cheese pie because that’s all they bloody eat. I thought the food was supposed to be good in Greece, but from what I can tell they’re all just a bunch of witless, stubborn c…

Phil:

We’re recording Ed.

Ed:

…culturally rich, enchanting people. You know you really get a sense of their heritage and passion for their history on Crete. Life affirming stuff. History was just brought to life, in a way that you just wouldn’t get in a country where there was a decent infrastructure and a basic grasp of logistics.

What we call Minoan culture wasn’t just present on Crete. Partly because they were such keen traders and maybe even because they liked shoving their noses into other peoples’ business, we find Minoan pottery, art and influence on the Cyclades islands, in Italy, the Levant and Turkey and their frescoes (which they basically seem to have invented) in Egypt. They exported agricultural goods and luxury crafts in exchange for metal, which was in short supply on Crete.

What did the Minoans believe?

If you’re in the market for a new religion and snake goddesses float your boat, consider becoming a Minoan worshipper. The Minoan main god seemed to be female, with a more minor male consort god, i.e. Prince Philip. The whole thing was presided over by priestesses.

While we have no idea who was in their god squad, we do think they worshipped at certain shrines and caves. Their art is all about movement, skilfully depicting people and animals on highly decorated pottery, seals and frescoes. 

When the Minoans drew people, they tend to be in profile - like Egyptian figures - but they seem to have exaggerated features - like slim waists and large breasts. This is the first evidence of Bronze Age porn!

They painted detailed frescoes of landscapes and you get all kinds of animals - octopus, horses, bulls. Bulls are actually a very common feature and seemed to have had divine importance. The sign of the bull was also accompanied by an axe - suggesting something sacrificial was going on. Minoan art has lots of frescoes of boys grabbing bulls by the horns and leaping over them. Seems to have been an early extreme sport.

Ed:

Minoan bull jumping. Sponsored by Red Bull.

Phil:

Red Bull. It gives you wounds.

Ed:

I saw a lot of this at the Heraklion Archeological Museum on Crete and the quality of their craftsmanship is insane. In many cases it’s actually better than Greek and Roman stuff a thousand years later. It’s astonishing.

Phil:

Yes, it’s almost like civilisation was more advanced the further you go back. You know what this means…

Ed:

Aliens!

FX: Alien spaceship with 2001 Zarathrusta theme.

Aliens:

Now, mortals. If you fire clay in this way, you can make really great pottery. And if you pile stones on top of each other, you get pyramids. Pyramids are awesome.

Mortal:

Couldn’t you teach us faster than light travel instead?

Aliens:

Look, I’m happy to use advanced technology, I just have no idea how it works. One day, you’ll understand.

What kind of government did the Minoans have?

This is hard to say, since their art doesn’t seem to point at one singular king, even though there’s splendour enough to suggest a powerful central monarchy. That’s not to say they didn’t have a King Minos type. We just haven’t found evidence of this. 

Ed:

Bronze Age commies, eh?

No. Burials do seem to show some signs of social stratification - not surprising with some people getting rich from a booming trade. And the rewards of that trade were extremely fancy doohickeys, like ornate jewellery, finely crafted daggers and golden cups.

And while it’s hard to say what the set up was, we can at least point to buildings that we can call palaces. But these don’t seem to be just palaces built for head honchos. Many of the archeological finds come from the palace ruins mainly found in Eastern Crete at Knossos, Malia, Phaistos and Zakros. These palaces were large multi storey buildings, set around a central courtyard. Within the palace happened trade, manufacturing, sports, food storage, religious ceremonies and just about everything you’d expect in an urban centre. These palaces were less royal residence and more…everything.

They seem to have acted as urban hubs and commercial centres. We think they may have played a dual function both as administrative and religious centres too, though (as with many early civilisations) those two functions went hand in hand.

What is the Palace of Knossos?

The most famous archaeological site of the Minoan civilisation, and maybe one of the first permanent settlements, the palace was discovered in 1878 and was tied into the myth of the King Minos, Theseus and the Minotaur. And if you need a quick refresher to that legend, here it is…

The Minotaur was the son of Queen Pasiphae. Her maj fell in love with a sacred bull and commissioned a local sex toy expert to invent a contraption so she could make sweet love to it. As a result, she became pregnant with a child who was a half-human, half-bull monstrosity. Unable to get him into any local primary schools, King Minos imprisoned the Minotaur in a labyrinth.

Minos’ actual human son Androgeus was killed while participating in the Athenian games. As restitution, King Minos demanded that King Aegeus of Athens must send 7 young men and women for the Minotaur to eat. It was a pretty standard peace treaty.

On the third year, Theseus, son of King Aegeus, volunteered to go. And in short, he not only managed to slay the Minotaur but also work his way out of the labyrinth. Incidentally, due to an easily avoidable mix up with sail colours, King Aegeus thought Theseus had been killed and so threw himself into the sea. And we’ve called it the Aegean Sea ever since. So it took a monarch committing suicide for a major waterway to get a name. 

Ed:

What do you think they called it before that? 

Phil:

It’s not important.

Ed:

So an irrelevancy.

Badum-splash

So when Victorian archaeologist Sir Arthur Evans got to the site, he decided that this Minos legend probably was one of those “didn’t literally happen but must have some truth to it” dealies. And so went to work fabricating some history.

Who was Sir Arthur Evans?

Like the ancient Minotaur, the Guardian describe Evans as half-man, half-bull because of his work at the Palace of Knossos - which involved unearthing/ making up discoveries, rebuilding rooms where he pleased and even pouring concrete! These days we take a very careful, scientific approach to archaeology. But back in the day, it was a bit more dig a big hole and see what ya got.

And that’s not a problem for everyone. In Greece, he’s actually still considered a hero. While pretty much desecrating the site to “restore” it, he was certainly the leading cheerleader for Minoan civilisation and probably why we know about them today. 

Arthur Evans wasn’t just an archaeologist. He was also a journalist, who lived in Dubrovnik and wrote about politics. He knew about publicising his work and how to get an audience. So he felt that people needed to see reconstructions to get them excited about the Minoans.

Ed: 

Nonsense. A bit of an old wall should be more than enough to get you fired up. Just knowing that the ancient dwelt there should be encouragement enough. As long as there are toilets onsite. And a gift shop. Perhaps a cafe. Maybe a themed rollercoaster. What is wrong with people’s attention span these days? Right Phil?

Phil:

…………………………………………………..huh?

Evans was only given permission to excavate by the local authorities once they’d untangled themselves from the Ottomans (so that Minoan artefacts didn't end up in Istanbul) and with the proviso that he took nothing home. Unlike Lord Elgan, who made the Parthenon’s loss the British Museum’s gain.

The one thing Evans certainly did steal was credit, since a Greek businessman and scholar Minos Kalokairnos, was the one who actually discovered the ruins. But credit where credit’s due, everybody (including Evans) thought it was a Mycanean site. It was only after digging began that Evans realised that Knossos was much older. And not just Minoan old, but megalithic old. 

And to take a minor tour of the Palace of Knossos site, here’s our CTDEA On The Road correspondent, Ed.

Ed:

Hi.

Phil:

Not you. Past Ed.

Ed:

Oh.

Play clip 1b Entry

Ed:

So, the first place you enter is the West Court, which is a large paved area, with three large holes that look a bit like shallow wells. Over to you past Ed.

Play Clip 2 West Court, then 4 Ritual, religion, then 6. Columns

Ed:

That’s right past Ed. The Palace of Knossos has huge columns and giant blocks of stone, seamlessly laid on top of each other - as was the megalithic style at the time.

But the impressiveness of the materials aside, Arthur Evans went around moving everything about so he could arbitrarily assign rooms to everything - which resulted in quite a large chunk of vandalism. There’s one chamber which Arthur Evans decided was a throne room, pretty much so he could invite the King of Greece to come and sit in it as a nice PR stunt. Here’s what Past Ed made of it…

Play Clip 9 Throne Room

Ed:

That was the sound of my partner in the background, who’s alway-s been very supportive of me ruining holidays by recording my own voice. And here she is again:

Play Clip Bonus: Shut up

Ed:

Fortunately, Evans didn’t get his hand on everything. One bit he failed to dig up is what’s called the East Wing, which is built around a multi-storey staircase of epic proportions. Over to past me…

Play 10 East Wing then 12 West Wing, then 14 Theatre then 11 Central courtyard, cutting after “character”.

Ed:

Sacred I get, but what’s all these profane  meetings about?

Phil:

It’s where people said things like “Pass the BLEEP-ing biscuits!”

Ed:

If you have a chance to go, absolutely do. Yes, it’s a total anachronism and yes, Arthur Evans basically played a Victorian game of the SIMs to build it, but the stones, the local history and the glorious setting make it worthwhile. And although it’s a small site, it does retain one aspect of Greek mythology.

Play 17 Lost labyrinth and 17b lost labyrinth.

Ed:

One interesting aspect of the palace is that it had a plumbing system with clay pipes. And it wasn't alone. Even fairly humble houses had clay gutters.

Phil:

This all sounds pretty advanced until your drains get blocked…with clay. You're going to need more than a plunger, pal.

Ed:

Pipes blocked up with the same thing they’re made of? That's going to cost you mate.

The average Mniioan family had 4 or 5 large storage jars (pithoi) which were filled with food for the year. Interestingly the houses that don't have these jars have much more pottery, textiles and bronze implements. The suggestion here is that these were industrial workshops that would trade their wares for food without the need to store any themselves. One site had all kinds of plates and cups and bowls and little bowls that fitted inside big bowls. All kinds of stuff for your home.

Ed:

I bet they did really good meatballs.

Phil:

Yes, and there’s a whole layer of discarded allen keys.

Why did the Minoans collapse?

Among the suspected culprits are included a huge volcanic explosion followed by tidal waves. Both of those things happened but they weren’t enough to end the Minoans.

Play Ed clip. 8 Reasons for collapse and Bonus crickets/ more crickets. 

It was not only in their myths that the ancient Greeks spoke of Crete. In the Odyssey, which is thought to reflect events of the Late Bronze Age, Homer describes Crete as a

 "lovely land, washed by waves on every side, densely populated

 and boasting 90 cities....Among their cities is the great city

 of Knossos, where Minos reigned." The Greek poet Hesiod told of "Cretans from Knossos, the city of Minos...who sailed their black ship to sandy Pylos, the Greek mainland. So the general consensus of the ancient Greeks was that Crete had once been a really big deal.

What is the legacy of the Minoans?

This is an interesting question. When we talk about the Ancient Greeks, we talk about a continuous line of legacy from briefly democratic Athens to the US government, but the legacy of the Minoans is now only based on their archeological rediscovery, and since we don't know a huge amount about them it means that their legacy has been open to interpretation.

Say what you want about Arthur Evans, and we have, but he helped to make the Minoans fashionable. What was called Creto-mania.

Ed Sullivan:

Ladies and gentlemen, it’s the Cretles.

The Cretles… (sing)

Roll up. Roll up for the Minotaur.

Roll up. Roll up for the Minotaur.

The magical minotaur is going to eat all your kids.

Hoping to eat all your kids.

Eat all your kids.  

The Minoans even had merch! Famous Spanish-Venetian artist Mariano Fortuny produced dresses and scarves inspired by Minoan motifs and patterns. Minoan sets started to be seen in plays and ballets during the late Belle Epoch.

Ed:

Huh?

Phil:

Period before WW1.

Ed:

Uh.

Cretomania became so big that even ancient Cretan graves were being dug up and robbed to provide something fashionable to put on a fireplace.

Snob 1

Darling, I loooove the new vase. Minoan?

Snob 2

Yes, I had a burial site desecrated and destroyed just to get my hands on it.

Snob 1

Fabulous! You must introduce you to your grave robber.

Ballerina Isadora Duncan visited Knossos and gave an impromptu dance that made many of the British archaeologists spit out their tea in scandal. [simpsons tea spit sugar man] Sadly, she was later killed in 1929 when her scarf got wrapped up in the wheels of a car.

Ed:

Could it have been one of Fortuny’s Minoan scarves? Perhaps she danced on the wrong grave. This sounds like a job for Hercule Poirot.

[POIOT THEME MUSIC]

Hercule:

So you see, Mr Fortuny, it was you who killed Ms Duncan in a manner most foul. What is another name for a scarf? A snood. And so I submit that it was you that snood all along.

Fortuny:

Wait. Is that your evidence?

Jap:

Poirot there's actually some very clear fingerprints on the car.

Hercule:

Not now, Inspector. With my flimsy evidence in hand, he's about to confess.

Fortuny:

No, I'm not.

Hercule:

Scarf also rhymes with giraffe, and do you not have a long neck? Like a giraffe?

Fortuny:

All right damnit, I killed her with the Minoan scarf.

For Aryans and Nazis of the 1920s and 30s, and probably for the Jordan Petersons of this world more latterly, the Minoans represented a feminine culture, a decadent, pacifist, tyrannical neo marxist matriarchy, which was rightly conquered by the masculine Mycenaeans.

Snake goddesses aside, the lack of weaponry was seen as a flag that Crete was at peace for a long time. However, beacons on Crete suggest that there was some kind of defence network. And weapons have since been found.`

Ed:

So that's that misogynistic misreading of history buggered then.

Sigmund Freud, a bit of an archeology fan, decided that ancient civilisations left a scar on the psyche and he linked that to an idea doing the rounds that civilisation evolved from a matriarchy to a patriarchy. So he made a ‘Minoan diagnosis’ for a bisexual patient, saying she’d regressed and was hysterical as she also fancied girls.

Ed:

Almost makes Scientology sound sane.

For the suffragettes, the flower power generation and second-wave feminists, the Minoans were to be conversely celebrated.

But there's no compelling evidence for any of these perceptions of the Minoans. But when your civilisation has effectively been dead for thousands of years, it gives people licence to see just what they want to see and to project their own prejudices onto you.

Earth 2220:

Commander Klarg, I’ve found yet another metal sculpture just like the rest. One long, thin metal rod topped by three slender prongs. Proof that these creatures also worshipped our three headed snake god.

How did the Minoans end?

So, while it’s hard to point to one thing, there’s a few apocalyptic things we can point to. Natural disasters definitely seem to have played a part. One major incident was the eruption of the Thera volcano (which is now Santorini) in 1600 BC. A combination of tsunamis and earthquakes seem to have caused coastal destruction, with ash and gases released into the atmosphere likely having a large impact on agricultural production. That said, Minoan civilisation seemed to have continued. In fact, the Palace of Knossos seems to have largely remained intact.

What we do know is that the Minoans were invaded by the Mycenaean.

Who were the Mycenaeans?

The Mycenaeans came from mainland Greece and developed a city-state culture surrounded by massive walls. They developed a written language called Linear B that we find on Crete itself, as well as evidence of their settlement, including burial customs and weapons.

They seem to have appeared on Crete from 1450 BC as the Minoans were going into decline. Some people have theorised that the Mycenaeans may have been a subject people of the Minoans, but took their opportunity to extend their power to the Minoans Cretan heartland.

And while we can’t say for sure that this was the case, how often does one power supplant another in its own homeland without some level of violence. In fact there seems to be evidence of deliberate damage done to Minoan shrines, including the smashing of a bull’s head.

And that leads us back to the story of Theseus and the Minotaur.

Rewind your brains back to 20 minutes ago or so, and you might remember that Theseus, the son of an Athenian King, came from the mainland to kill the Minotaur and end the tyrannical tradition of King Minos taking Athenian children and feeding them to the Minotaur. Well, there are some weird coincidences in this story - as pointed out by one-time CTDEA guest Sebastian Major in his show Our Fake History.

The Minoans had a religious bull obsession and used images of bulls in their art. It’s almost as if a monstrous bull (or a minotaur) would be associated with the Minoans - especially if you were a people under their domination.

Remember the bull leaping? In one account of the myth, Theseus flips over the Minotaur whenever it charges.

The Palace of Knossos itself is a labyrinthine maze of rooms and passages.

Ed:

Which I found when I went there.

Then there’s that axe that accompanied the symbol of the bull, which was known as a labiris. Labiris. Labyrinth. Coincidence? Wait a minute, Ed. Who called it a labiris and in what language?

Ed:

Generally speaking, I do thorough research and double check everything. But this fact I uncritically swiped from Our Fake History.

So anyway, the story of the Minotaur is Athenian youths being sacrificed to a bull-headed monster. And whether it’s literal sacrifices or just large amounts of tribute that states usually have to pay to the larger power, a son of Athens goes to end this tyranny.

It’s easy to see how the Mycenaean conquering of the Minoans lines up with this myth, and why it’s often said that stories and myths like this often contain a grain of truth - even if the details are spiced up and totally transformed in the retelling.

Ed:

And if you think that sounds far-fetched, just wait until we do our next episode called Was Minoan Crete the real Atlantis?

Phil:

It’ll be great to end series 5 on a real low.

Ed:

Turning history into a manufactured mess of myth? Don’t blame me. Arthur Evans started it.

Phil:

He oughta know.

Song: (Alanis Morisette)

You went digging at, sites in central crete

Thought you'd found a lot of Mycaneans 

An older city was there

The palace of Knossos with stairs

You said you thought you found a theatre

The press excitedly covered

your discoveries

They were sure you'd seen the minotaur’s lair   

So you moved all the rooms in the tomb around

And invented uses for all that you found

To fabricate               no

And yo u said there was a place where

They played board games, your made up layout was so lame.

HIGH 

Was so lame, now we start again

[Chorus]

And I'm here, to remind you

Of the mess you left when you excavate

From Minotaur’s,  heap of bullshit

Now we're left to try and extricate the

M m m Minoans.

Ah yes existers thanks for listening

Next time we’ll be back giving you what you’ve wanted all along, plumbing the depths of historical integrity as we ask:  

Was Minoan Crete the lost ancient city of Atlantis, of could it have been the cradle of a civilisation of a more… extraterrestrial origin..? Find out on…